Vain Inventions of Man
Islam's Friday (day 6)
Christianity's SUNday (day 1)
Shabbat - The Seventh Day
“Six days you labour, and shall do all your work,
but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה your Elohim.
You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter,
nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle,
nor your stranger who is within your gates.
“For in six days יהוה made the heavens and the earth, the sea,
and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.
Therefore יהוה blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my morally ordained mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their offerings shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.
(*See His Name)
Isa 66:23 And it
shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all
flesh come to worship before me, saith YAHUAH.
article -last updated
[pw = pagan word translation]
See what SUNday worshipers teach
Is Mohamed a true prophet and the quran a "new revelation"?
Our discussion with a Muslim regarding shabbat reveals all.
After I stated on Youtube that Mashiak (pw Messiah) did not come to change the Tor'rah (law) and that the Quran is definitely not a new revelation that can be added to scripture, I received a reply from a Muslim by the name of Haroon. He assumed I was a Jew, which I am not, and that I followed Rabbi's ( perhaps because I referred to the To'rah which is ironic since Rabbis do not follow To'rah but Talmud and Mishna which corrupts Torah. I did not get to explain that I am a Yahudi (worshiper of Yahuah) and His Son Yah'ushua but our conversation continued as follows...
You are partly on the right track. Yes Jesus pbuh said that he did not come to change the law. and nether did Prophet Muhammud. pbuh. The Quran is very clear that the Jews intefered with their texts making their own changes.Me :
The Quran also asks the muslims to enquire from the jews about the sabbath. God Almighty had put the jews to a test of faith. The fish by the command of God Almighty were plentiful on Friday which was the sabbath but were not there on the Saturday so out of greed and weakness of faith the sabbath was moved to Saturday so that the fish could be caught on the Friday. Hence the sabbath was changed by your Rabbis. So the information is available to muslims. As for food God forbade you certain foods as chastisement for your wrong doings . This is also in the Quran.
The original message in its pure form as revealed to Moses pbuh as well as the pure revelation to Jesus pbuh is confirmed by the Quran as coming from the same God Almighty that revealed the Quran to Prophet Muhammud pbuh. The Quran also states that all the prophets are ONE BROTHERHOOD but people have divided themselves into sects. Your scholars have confirmed that you dont have the original scriptures. As for the torah, it was lost when the jews were in captivity in Babylon over a long period.What you have now are Rabbinical writings with traces of the original revelation.
What is unique by the grace of God Almighty is that the core essence of the message of guidance and monotheism is there in both the current day Torah as well as the Bible. Thus the Quran relates to these texts and addresses you as people of the book. That is what you guys seem to miss .There can be no new religion. If Jesus pbuh did not come to change the laws of the torah then it stands to reason that there can be no trinity. That is why trinity was absent from the Gospel and it is an innovation.?
Dear haroon, I will reply to your comments one at a time. So my first question is :When is shabbat for Muslims, what time does it start and end and what day is it? What is commanded to be done or not done on the shabbat and what is the Muslim's understanding for the reason for a shabbat command??
For muslims the importance of friday as a day of sabbath is according to quranic injunction. One is commanded to close ones business and stop all activities and heed the call to midday prayers and the sermon . We take special ablutions for this day and put on clean fresh garb and the use of perfume is recommended . When the prayer is over we may go out and seek the bounty of God Almighty and God is the best provider of sustenance. Also this day is important as many events took place which are important in religion. Adam ws created on this day . He entered paradise on this day. He left paradise on this day to be placed on earth.The end time will be on a friday so there are many important events linked to this day. Also charity and prayer on this day holds special rewards as one leaves ones ctivities and business transactions to come to prayer for a period longer than the normal daily prayers with complete trust in God Almighty that he is the best provider of sustenance. It can also be a day of mass gathering where community matters can be discussed and believers gather to bond. many benefits.?
Dear haroon, thanks for your reply. I appreciate our conversation. It is not often that I can talk with someone on this level without them becoming abusive or foolish, thank you. I will try to keep our dialogue streamlined so that we don’t have to digress into a million different topics at the same time. So my next question is which day according to Muslims does the Messiah Yah’ushua accept as the sabbath if at all?Haroon :
A Messiah is not given a choice as to which day he can decide to accept the Sabbath. It is by the command and decree of the Almighty that sabbath is established . The Quran was revealed as a universal book of Guidance hence in many places it addresses mankind " ya ayyuhan naas" mwening O mankind " Similarly Prophet Muhammud pbuh is also addressed in the Quran as " a mercy unto creation " So being the final revelation its universal . All the messengers of God Almighty are described as " One Brotherhood" but it is people who have divided themselves into sects. " Chapter 23 9f the Quran. So all messengers would follow the same day of sabbath. It was people who made changes after the messengers passed away. Further God Almighty states in the Quran that the Quran is not a new mesage but a reminder and a confirmation of previous scripture given to other messengers pbut. That is because it emanates from one source, the One Almighty God who gave guidance to all . The only fully preserved scriptural text we have currently is the Quran which God Almighty said He would preserve from corruption because it must serve to the end time . Had the previous scriptures been preserved in its original revealed state then tthe followers of Moses pbuh would have accepted Jesus because he Jesus pbuh confirmed the revelation to Moses pbuh ( i have not come to change one jot of the Law..The Torah. It would then follow that the followers of Jesus pbuh would have no hesitation in Accepting Prophet Muhammud pbuh as foretold in previous scriptures and as the message Prophet Muhammud pbuh brought would be the same as the previous messengers as confirmed in the Quran. It makes absolute sense. There is no question of superiority .?Me :
By shabbat i guess you meann sabbath. For muslims its Friday . The actual 24 hour cycle for a muslim starts at the early evening (maghrib) prayers at sundown and ends the following just before sundown . Hence you will know that the Friday prayers where muslims gather en masse which is just after midday is the most important prayer of the week and in many muslim countries, its a holiday very much like sunday which the christians have chosen and the saturday that the jews have chosen.?
Dear Haroon, thanks for the reply. You agree then that Messiah Yah'ushua is subject to the correct sabbath day of To'rah as delivered by Moses and written by the finger of Yah'uah Elohim , so again my question is what day was that? If you are not sure is there any source that you have Quranic or from the scriptures Genesis to Revelations that you could point out??
It is a historical fact that we dont have a Gospel according to God Almighty as revealed to Jesus pbuh. What we have are the writings of four unknown authors and letters of the self appointed Paul and original GREEK scripts.
The language of the biblical lands was Aramaic/Hebrew and not greek or latin. An attempt at preserving a form of religion for christians devised by bishops and roman rulers has resulted in the serious compromise of the religion .
A deviation from true monotheism. The jews also lost their scripture and what we have today is a rabbinic version of the Torah with huge discrepancies and contradictions which has succeeded in turning the true teachings of Moses pbuh and David pbuh into a self serving racist cult.
The reason for the quran being protected in its purest form is because it does not claim to be a new message but a confirmation and a rehearsal of previous scripture in their original form. So it validates the mission of all the Abrahamic prophets pbut and particularly of Abraham pbuh,
Moses pbuh, and Jesus pbuh who were the major messengers and culminating in the messengership of Prophet Muhammud pbuh. In chapter 23 of the Quran, Allah s w t says, "All the messengers are one brotherhood but people have divided themselves into sects. " The coming and finality of prophethood of Prophet Muhammud pbuh was foretold in both the Torah and Gospel In the Torah he is referred to by name and in the gospel he is referred to as the comforter. But it has been prejudice that has prevented the doctors of divinity from confirming this. Its just pure logic that if there is only One God then we all should be on the same page.
Dear Haroon thank you. Now I read in chapter 23 the Quran states
Those who, from awe of their Lord, are fearful. 58 And those who believe in their Lord's Verses. ...61 It is they who race towards goodness. It is they who will reach it first.
Now if I have the ancient books Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy of Moshe (Moses) and I share those verses of Yah’uah (pagan catholic word -Lord) with you will you be in awe and fearful and believe what they say or will you tell me Surah Jummua takes preference over the verses of Yah’uah?
I am presenting you now what the To'rah WRITTEN by the finger of Yah'uah on Mount Sinai ( Jebal al-Lawz)and REWRITTEN again by Moses when the people were worshipping the golden calf. Thus far you have been kind enough to provide me with some information. You gave me some hearsay information regarding Rabbis and the sabbath and some small references to sabbath ( shabbat ) in the Quran with a Chapter heading referrring to the Friday the sixth day. You have not been able to tell me as a Muslim what day Mashiak ( pw Messiah) accepts as the sabbath in accordance with To'rah. So here is the WRITTEN To'rah quoted for you :
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart.
Exo 20:9 “Six days you labour, and shall do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath* of יהוה your Elohim. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. Exo 20:11 “For in six days יהוה made the shamayim (pw heavens) and the world (pw earth), the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה barak'd (pw blessed) the Sabbath day and set it apart. [*-note There are other Sabbaths, but this is the weekly Sabbath.]
Could you comment on how this relates to the Muslim or the Quran and how you plan to come into unity with the To'rah as written here? Thanks. I am aware of other Quranic verses but I will let you speak from your own heart and understanding of them for now.?
The week starts on saturday so the sabbath falls on the friday. The days start at the early evening prayers which is at sunset so after sunset is a new day. We follow the Gregorian calendar for convenience purposes but you have to understand that the gregorian calendar is associated with paganism which i am sure you are aware of. We are of the Abrahamic religions.We do nnot have the revelation as given by God Almighty to Moses pbuh. We have traces of it just like the Gospel . But again i reiterate that the Quran confirms the revelations given to Moses pbuh and Jesus pbuh. So for example when neo atheists attack the person of Moses pbuh and Jesus pbuh as being imagined personalities then the Quran defende their mission, their person and their dignity as noble messengers of God Almighty. And yes i did tell you what day the Prophets accepted as Sabbath and that is Friday. Or else God Almighty would not have told us in the Quran to ask them about the sabbath and how the jews changed it. It says '"ask their doctors of divinity" So there is no ambiguity. There is One God Almighty and His message to all the messengers would be absolutely consistent . Being consistent would then mean that at the finality of Prophethood, the final messenger would be recognised as a true messenger because the message would be the same and a fulfilling of the prophecy of previous messengers as to the coming of the final Messenger. Thus we would all be united in belief and one body of believers. Its logical conclusion to serve until end times. Sabbath for all prophets would be same.?Me:
Dear HaroonHaroon :
It is clear then that you do not hold the To’rah in awe as your Quran commands you to since you do not accept the commanded day of the seventh day as shabbat and have claimed that the Rabbis have changed it. I do not follow Rabbi’s /Gregorian calendar for keeping appointed times of Yah’uah. I only follow the prophets and Mashiak Yah’ushua and the apostles who all stick to To’rah. Here is what the Rabbis say concerning their answer to the Muslims when they ask about the shabbat it seems different to what you have stated earlier concerning “fish”
In the Bible it says to rest on the seventh day of the week, because G-d created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Today Christians rest on Sunday, Muslims rest on Friday, and Jews rest on Saturday. How do you know that you are celebrating on the right day?
Your very question was dealt with by the Midrash Rabbah, a compilation close to 2,000 years old.
We were first commanded to keep Shabbat in the desert shortly after we left Egypt. How did we know when to keep it? In Exodus 16, we are told that during our journey in the desert, manna fell every day except for one—the Shabbat. So what did we eat then? A double portion fell every Friday so that we would have what to eat the next day as well. On the first Friday after the manna began to fall, the people were surprised to see so much manna—double that which they had received on each of the past five days. When they came to ask Moses about this phenomenon, he revealed that the next day would be the Shabbat and that no manna would fall at all.
The actual wording of G-d's message to Moses and the Jewish People is "See that G-d has given to you the Shabbat." The Midrash points out that the word used is "see" and not "know." It explains:
This is what G-d was saying to them: "If the idolaters will come to you and ask, 'Why do you make the Shabbat day on this day?' you will tell them, 'See, the manna does not fall on the Shabbat.'"
For the next 40 years we had a weekly reminder of the Shabbat every time the manna did not fall. Since then, we have continued to keep count and will continue to do so for the rest of time.
Rabbi Yehuda Halevi in his 12th century classic, "The Kuzari," points to an earlier source for the universally accepted week. He points to the striking fact that the vast majority of the world keeps a seven-day week—evidence that this must be a very ancient custom indeed. How did it begin? When Adam was banished from Eden on the first Friday afternoon of Creation, he rested that first Shabbat. He then counted six days and again rested on the seventh. Ever since, his offspring in many parts of the world have emulated this practice, living their lives by a seven-day week.” reference chabad.org
If the Rabbis had changed the sabbath day Ha Mashiak Yah’ushua would have rebuked them and corrected it there and then since he came to preach the To’rah fully and restore it as prophesied by Isaiah.
Isa_42:21 YAH’UAH is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
His Son Yah’ushua was not concerned at all at any time with the day of shabbat as it was being kept on the seventh day (friday sunset to Saturday sunset) as commanded and as it is being today. He was only concerned with HOW it was being kept. Yah’ushua has been appointed Master of the shabbat by his Father so he would certainly have made it known loudly that they were keeping it on the wrong day and there would have been a division over the day and he would have been put to death over that but he was not!
The scriptures tell us that Yah'uah rested on the seventh day and we are to rest as he did on the seventh day. You are saying that we are to rest on the sixth day. Do we listen to you or to Yah'uah??
Where did i say sixth day. You havent read what i wrote properly. I said the week begins on Sat and ends on fri so friday would be the last day of the week making it the seventh day. I also explained to you when the day starts. Now coming to scripture. Is the Midrash the Torah as revelaled to Moses pbuh. You are relying on Rabbinical writings and presenting it as Torah. That cannot be right. Scholars of judaism and christianity have already reserched this topic extensively and hve stated that The Torah is no more and all we have are Rabbinical writings. It is the same with the Talmud which has gained notoririetary for its content . This has been lamented by many scholars. The gospel has suffered the same fate. However the Quran has confirmed the validity Of what was revealed to Moses pbuh and Jesus pbuh. This confirms the validity of their Messengership and the ORIGINAL pure revelations. Are those previous revelations in existence, no , . Furthermore , Why would the Quran want to change the Sabbath of the Jews or Christians. The Sabbath of the Christians being a Sunday has already been agreed by many biblical historians,to be pagan derived from the pagan roman religion of Mithraism. This was more for political reasons. As for jews, i think your own Rabbis will in secret concede and in fact some have done it openly , that the jews have proven themselves in history to be the most contentious and the most rebellious of the believing peoples. The biggest indictment is the fact they regressesd to worshiping the golden calf after being delivered from bondage. So the story of the changing of the Sabbath sounds extremely credible .Me :
The believers are asked to question the jewish bretheren about the changing of the sabbath. Strangely your narrative of the Manna and the version of the fish is very similar. Food for thought. The further mistakes of the Rabbis post Babylon is the racism and exceptionalism and exclusivity they gave to jews in their text has turned the pure teachings of Moses pbuh into a self serving cult.
You WERE chosen people not for a self serving agenda but to lead mankind on the path of righteousness and truth . Your rebeliousness lost you that position. The Quran is very clear that the jews were given several chances and they failed consistently.Knowing that Usury was forbidden, for example, the jews particularly have turned compounded interest on money lending into a money making institution. The Quran is the only religious text which is universal by divine claim and vowed to protection from corruption. This has stood firm over the 1435 . It further confirms the previous pure revelations so it stands as a valid document for all people who believe in God Almghty
Dear Haroon what you are saying is that the Rabbis moved the week forward by one whole day, from Fridy to Saturday. Now if you are referring to scholars looking at this then that is from the world perspective and from the world’s acceptance of which day is the last day of the week. Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary
“Saturday- The seventh and last day of the week, the Jewish sabbath”
Now that we have established that the world accepts the Saturday as the last day of the week by its very definition, then it is the same day that Yah’uah rested and the same day we must rest as commanded in To’rah and the same day Yah’ushua kept in line with the Pharisees ( rabbis of the day ) without any friction or rebuke or change. You are aware that Rome accepted Saturday as the seventh day of the week in Yah’ushua’s time and Constantine’s time with his evil syncretism and you are aware that the catholic church knows the sabbath is Saturday and moved it to what is called the first day of the week SUNday and brags about it.
In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.
So 300 something years before Quran Saturday was still the Sabbath day for us who keep To’rah.
Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary - Sunday the FIRST day of the week, the Christian sabbath.
You are aware that if the Yahudim ( Jews) were to paganise the sabbath they would have opted for SUN worship since that is what they kept whoring after, That is what was worshipped in Sinai with the golden calf ( BAAL) and that is what was in Babylon. The catholic church whores after the same Baal SUN worship and thus it is SUN day they keep to venerate the SUN. The pagan Jews still worship the sun and Rome ( Babylon) today by facing the EAST when praying at their idol of stone, the Western Wall or Wailing wall (Roman Fort Antonia remains). This is in direct 180 degree rebellion. Yah’uah has said they were to have their backs to the east, thus not worshiping the rising sun as the pagans do.
I am quite aware of the Christians profaning the shabbat of the seventh day. Let us focus on the Quran and Muslims for now. But I will say this, moving the sabbath to a different day is one thing but moving the week is not possible. This did not even happen when the catholics brought in their calendar around the world. The seven day cycle has not been interrupted in the history of mankind. Saturday is defined as the seventh day.
You will know that the Rabbis are not ashamed of their blatant disrespect for the To’rah. YOU WILL NOTE IT IS THE TO’RAH that remains as a living witness against the Rabbis so why would you say it has been changed by them? In fact this is the reason we know it is inpsired of Yah’uah since it remains an honest account showing those who obeyed and those who disobeyed. It shows the successes and failures of Israel according to their keeping of To’rah. It is not a politcal propoganda. The same applies to the Good Message (wrongly named Gospel from pagan godspell). The very people who wanted to withold the book of Revelations the catholic /christian Vatican is the book which exposes them as the Antimessiah system, the whore of Babylon. So you cannot tell me that the Good Message has not been ordained by Yah’uah in the same way as the To’rah which exposes Talmudic Judaism. They will teach that their oral laws Talmud and Midrash were ADDED thus we know that To’rah is intact as the WRITTEN law of Yah’uah to Moses and us
BEFORE TALMUD AND MIDRASH were ADDED by them. The rabbis NEVER tell you they changed the To’rah but they DO tell you they have the “right” to overide the To’rah using their evil Talmud and Midrash traditions etcetera etcetera. The same applies to the pope he is not ashamed to say he overides the SEVENTH DAY sabbath. He accepts the To’rah as unchanged but that he has changed it with his own tradition. So we do not throw away To’rah we throw away the Vatican and Judaism and any religion which changed To’rah.
So when you say the To’rah has been changed by them you are mistaken. Yes they have fiddled with the name of the creator over 6000 times and small things but these things are reliably restored due to the numerous copies of the texts as opposed to the Quran which has only two texts I think, and the oldest which is different (having word changes within it) to the more recent one, making small changes such as “virgins in paradise” versus “a bunch of grapes” etcetera but if I were to say that the whole of the Quran cannot be accepted as being written by somebody because it is different here or there that would be absurd ( whether I believe in it or not ) it is a piece of work written by an author/s and accepted as such.
You cannot say that the ten commandments have been changed (Exodus 20!!!???) That is absurd!!! No biblical scholar that I know of has ever said such a thing. The entire world accepts the ten commandments as a complete work by the author and everybody knows shabbat is the seventh day ( Saturday). Even the apostles met on the shabbat (same day).
Thus the rabbis use their Talmud and Midrash to try and make the To’rah void or add to it or diminish it but the To’rah remains as the witness against them as they do that, else what witness would we have against them, what witness would you have against them? Your Quran was written 600 AD, to what does it relate other than the existing To’rah as the witness against them? You have just used the torah stating “The biggest indictment is the fact they regressesd to worshiping the golden calf after being delivered from bondage.”
If you do not accept the TO’rah as reliable then why quote it here as a witness against them? What assures you that the golden calf story is not hearsay?
So you cannot say it is not accurate and use it as a witness against them. That is like using an unreliable witness in court to prove your case. It was what Messiah used against them and it is quoted by him, it is the To’rah. It is not the Quran, it is the TO’rah that remains that is the witness by which you can only judge. It is the To’rah by which we judge one another not TALMUD, MIDRASH, HEARSAY OR THE QURAN IT IS TO’RAH. To’rah states what happens when you do not keep the sabbath properly.
Exo 31:12 And יהוה spoke to Mosheh, saying,
Exo 31:13 “And you, speak to the children of Yisra’?l, saying, ‘My Sabbaths you are to guard, by all means, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, to know that I, יהוה, am setting you apart.
Also see Eze_20:12 and Eze_20:20.
Exo 31:14 ‘And you shall guard the Sabbath, for it is set-apart to you. Everyone who profanes it shall CERTAINLY BE PUT TO DEATH, for anyone who does work on it, that being shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 ‘Six days work is done, and on the seventh is a Sabbath of rest, set-apart to יהוה. EVERYONE DOING WORK ON THE SABBATH DAY SHALL CERTAINLY BE PUT TO DEATH.
Exo 31:16 ‘And the children of Yisra’?l shall guard the Sabbath, to perform the Sabbath throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant.
Exo 31:17 ‘Between Me and the children of Yisra’?l it is a sign forever. For in six days יהוה made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”
Exo 31:18 And when He had ended speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Mosheh two tablets of the Witness, tablets of stone, WRITTEN WITH THE FINGER OF ELOHIM.
Israel is largely pagan today yet they still have their land since they keep shabbat on the right day. If they wilfuly changed the day surely they would all be dead by now. They are in fact paranoid over the sabbath keeping for this very fact and the adding of traditions originally was there to hedge the people in to keep the sabbath and not profane it for fear of death etc. This legalism however added 39 oral traditions which made it a burden instead of a delight to the people. This is what Yah’ushua came to rectify. It was not the day but the way it was kept that was and is wrong.
The rabbis oppose the To’rah with other writings and traditions, they do not change the TO’RAH since that would not have been possible since it would have been quickly discovered as the many copies by the scribes would have been different and a forgery would have been quickly discovered. The scribes had to copy word for word, letter by letter, If they made a mistake on the page the whole page had to be thrown away and rewritten.
I still have not had any valid reference from you concerning your quote which included :
“...The fish by the command of God Almighty were plentiful on Friday which was the sabbath but were not there on the Saturday”
Now you would agree that if you are stating something that Yah’uah COMMANDED here and you have no reference from the ancient book on that, or otherwise, then it is hearsay and Yah’uah finds it an extremely blasphemous evil when Words are put in his mouth which he has not said nor commanded, would you agree? That is adding to his commandments to which he has stated
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying Yah’ushua that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction
So please Haroon, please supply the author of these statements with the time of origin so we can place your quote somewhere in the timeline and go from there. I cannot work on hearsay.
I have not heard from Haroon up to now.